16th Note Octave Jumping Bassline Problems

Seaside3333 · 2012-07-23, 22:20

When trying to create a 16th note common disco-y type of bassline, example two lower octave 16th notes followed by two higher octave 16th notes and on and on and on, produces that DA DA DE DE DA DA DE DE DA DA DE DE, etc... repetitive rhythm.... all of you probably know what I am talking about.

I always have problems with the lower octave notes sounding a lot more like 8th notes being played on every beat and being way too muddy, bassy, and sounding like a thud on each beat instead of clear defined 16ths.

I tried eq, compressing, making the notes shorter (staccato), playing with keyboard tracking, creating different soft synth patches, trying premade soft synth patches, almost everything I can think of. And still I am getting that thud sound on every beat, every time the lower octave notes are played.

I listened to other tracks and they always have such smooth 16th note rolling basslines, that sound defined and clear. I was wondering how they make it happen? is there a trick to it? what is the secret? how is it programmed, two different synths layered? It seems simple, but I am having such a hard time with this. If anyone can help it will be well appreciated.

Here is a perfect example of what I am talking about, the member Saul from here posted an example of the difference between 16th note and 8th note basslines for a question asked in this forum back in 09. Well the beginning of the track shows exactly what I want to do with the 16th note jumping bassline, and it does not have that thud sounding lower octaves, its a good example:
http://www.spacesynth.net/downloads/saul/Lost%20Astronaut.mp3

Thanks.

Ruslan · 2012-07-23, 23:29

Use 90 Hz High Pass Filter. And write correct notes for bass. Do not use very low notes... If it's not possible in your song, you can change key of song.

Seaside3333 · 2012-07-24, 1:36

Thank you for your answer
.
I am using propellerheads reason, and I am just testing it out with some of there premade bass patches.

I put the hpf up to 90hz, and the low octave sound is still there, it a little better but still there.

Is there a certain way I show program the software synthesizer for this type of fast and repetitive bassline?

TD Mak · 2012-07-24, 2:32

If putting in the high-pass filter makes it better, then it might make sense to play around with that some more, maybe increasing the cutoff, and see if results get even better.

The only other thing I can think of is that on your amp envelope, make sure the sustain is at zero or close to it, and the decay is super-short. Have a similar arrangement with your filter envelope--sustain doesn't have to be zero, but having a quick change from bright to dull helps make each note distinctly noticeable. Both attacks and releases should also be zero.

Could you post an example of something you're working on so we can hear what you're talking about?
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Seaside3333 · 2012-07-24, 11:23

Ok no problem, here is a quick repeating simple 4 bar pattern I made as an example.

I am using a pretty plain patch called "BasicSquareBass" in the subtractor synthesizer.
I am using a 90Hz HPF on it.
I have no effects on it.
I did not mess with the velocities of the notes.
I did not mess with the length of the notes, they are just 16th notes.

my example: http://soundcloud.com/user1232763/example

Do you hear how the lower octave just sounds like a repeating muddy thud on each beat? It does not sound like separate well defined 16th notes. It sounds really deep compared to the higher octave and does not seem to blend well. If you compare my example to the previous example by Saul that I posted before, hopefully you can see what I mean, I will post Saul example again:

Saul example: http://www.spacesynth.net/downloads/saul/Lost%20Astronaut.mp3

What am I doing wrong or missing? I know this is a pretty basic and common disco type pattern...Please help thanks.

LauriT · 2012-07-24, 12:03

I suggest opening the filter a little bit because now it sounds quite dull. It's also a good idea to track the filter across the keyboard so that the lower notes have lower cutoff values than the notes octave above (adjust the kbd knob in the filter settings). This way the lower notes don't jump out so much.
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Seaside3333 · 2012-07-24, 22:21

Thanks for help and reply.

Ok I open up the filter a little more.
Played with the kbd some, I have it at 90 out of 127
Still have the hpf at 90Hz

Here it is: http://soundcloud.com/user1232763/example2

Its not as dull, but you can still here the lower notes being thuddy, muddy, undefined, and not blending. On the lower octaves It is like a muddy DA DA DA DA on each beat. It does not feel like that 16th note bassline I hear in a lot of songs, or the example the Saul posted.

Ruslan · 2012-07-25, 8:42

Try to use another synths, and try to use more compression

BTW: You synth bass and synth bass in Saul's example - very different synth timbres! They are really DIFFERENT.

Seaside3333 · 2012-07-25, 9:48

I tried a whole bunch of synths, it still has that muddy lower octave...any pointers on getting to a more usuable timbre? Certain waves (sine, saw, square) I should be trying to use?

I am going to mess with the compression like you said, and see if that helps some.

andgalf · 2012-07-26, 17:25

Maybe you could try and turn up the resonance a little bit.

A free synth you could try is Odyssey (based on the ARP Odyssey) by Synth School. Here is an example of how that synth sounds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h3PfVwqix0 Listen at 0:41, it's a preset called stabber that's quite nice for 16th note bass.