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Post Post #18786
Thanks for the replies, guys Smile

Staffan and SX001 PMed me some more examples as well, but there's definitely a lot of "samples" (definitely a generous word here) that I didn't know about before! I'll start submitting more of them to WhoSampled when I get some free time.

"Vamos a la Fiesta" is definitely a pretty brazen ripoff, I wonder how many people happened to notice that back in the 80s when it was released? I notice the 12" itself credits Erik and Rob instead of Michiel, but I wonder whether or not that's actually correct (I know Michiel himself stated that Erik was a lot less involved in the production of Hotsound releases than he gave himself credit for...)

Here's another, less blatant similarity that I don't think anyone mentioned:
Fabian Nesti - Heigh Ho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0R0uZijAhA
Laserdance - My Mine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up4oUudOxA0#t=26

This one might just be coincidence, but what do you think?
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Post Post #18791
MvdK is one of five men, who directed me in electronic music when I grew out from my teen years. Other four were Jarre, Vangelis, Oldfield and Froese. And now I'm learning that, besides tons of great tunes of his, there's amount of melodies made by someone else and stolen by MvdK. Will I treat my Master with great vengeance and furious anger? I don't know. MvdK made too much for music I'm stand up for more than 25 years. I'm not feeling well, learning that he took bits of not his music and presented as his own. Master? Thief? Or something between or "this is not that simple"?
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Master Droid



Post Post #18792
Oh common guys, there are 7 notes only and all good music was written by the guys with wigs (FZ ). And most themes are repeated over and over for decades... Let's take LD "Excitation" for example - you can hear that theme in thousand of tracks even before and after that release (i have one track with it too) and in near future there will be more repetitions, thievery and nobody will stop this - people, however, still require fresh music.

All music is already written since very beginning (especially in 2014)... what most of us do is design music. So, relax and enjoy it without butthurts.
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Post Post #18793
I guess nobody denies this, Neuton. I myself am quite OK with stealing some melodies here and there. What's just ridiculous is Vamos a la Fiesta, where somebody steals the whole thing and credits himself with it.
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Post Post #18794
Neuton, I can see the difference between uintentional similarity and ripping off with no excuses. Examples mentioned in this topic are merciless. Not only notes are similar, simultaneous chord progressions are the subject of copying as well. And with those two features (melody and chords) can we say it was accidental? And I won't comment your justifying of LD's "repeating".
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Post Post #18795
Neuton Mouse wrote:
Oh common guys, there are 7 notes only and all good music was written by the guys with wigs (FZ ). And most themes are repeated over and over for decades...


(just talking in general, not in spacesynth specifically?)
Come on Neutonmouse... you cant be so sure.
If someone takes one hitsong, just deliberately rip off half melody from it, would you still bet that absolutely NOTHING will happen once that track gathers more attention ( gets into the public) AND big money will be involved? WOuld you just dare to say in court "naah there is just 7 notes" ? Wink Do the judge really takes that argument into account?

So does function the copyright and there why ever have been such cases ("Men at Work" courtcase), even if the tune they used in their tune was 50 years old childtune! And about Aqua - Barbiegirl tune there was also mess that band used "Barbie" name... Wink What a mess. Razz

if we take into focus melody itself then for sure if it is not "ripoff" then its the question "who came first to this?". Man cant justify this even with that "naah I never heard about this melody before".
otherwise if it is so -- "there are only 7 notes, so be my guest do whatever you want", -- then why there is still a very high propability to get sued when just making a track which uses even phrase of one wellknown hit song?!


Quote:
Let's take LD "Excitation" for example - you can hear that theme in thousand of tracks even before and after that release


(spacesynth specifically)
...yes, but only if you take the spacesynth.net underground artists into the focus... Wink outside this community there is just one italo tune which have its ripoff by MvdK. About italo tunes these ripoffs dont trigger lawsuits perhaps becouse there is not so much money involved in it and profits to get from courtcase.
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Master Droid



Post Post #18796
@ Adi & Aleks,

The only real way to know it is to ask MVDK about it (if he feels honest about answering) - otherwise, it might be also cryptomnesia.

And yes, i was talking about music in general. Spacesynth is also music... right? Very Happy

Adi wrote:
And I won't comment your justifying of LD's "repeating".

Could you be more specific with this sentence? My post was a global view on things and i took excitation as example from our genre. What do you mean by this?

---

The future is ridiculously predictable: in next decade i reckon mainstream will suck all the ideas from 50's to 90's, make complete ripoffs with different sounds and make a decent profit! Nothing we can do about it...except complaining Smile

Listening to radio (store, car, elsewhere) i already hear Phil Collins or Bronski Beat under different titles of both artist and song names. Every year court becomes less serious about music plagiarism - and yes, mega killing argument "7 notes" closes any court case instantly without a result. The court also became useless with video game industry - lot's of corporations and old businessmen failed to sue new games because content becomes massive and new ideas are hard to come up with and the reason for this: "7 notes"! Even here... same for music.

If some example is needed to the top just google "pitbull - Feel this moment " - i've bet everybody knows that melody in this community but my peers (and much more younger people) think this is unique and original song.

PS: sometimes MVDK rips his own melodies from himself to other songs: "Excitation" and "A Night Out In Tomorrowland"Very Happy
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Post Post #18797
It seems you're taking resposibility of plagiarism out of MvdK's arms because of "you can hear it everywhere", which sounds for me almost like "your honor, you can suck my balls, maybe I came up with those notes by myself, maybe not, but I don't remember, cos' I'm an artist, not some accountant". I don't buy that. Italo and spacesynth have a very specific melody lines. Amount of notes makes those lines unique, thus finding a melody thief within those genres is very easy. BTW - I bet you know that Oxygene IV melody is based on slowed down melody of Popcorn tune. If MvdK would choose that way of "recycle", I wouldn't say a word. But he ripped notes and chords as they originally were!
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Master Droid



Post Post #18798
Just to make clear - i'm not defending these"sins of mvdk".

I should have specified that i have not talked about stolen tracks by MVDK but again... in general the ripoffs and other stuff. Now, as the horrible MVDK truth is revealed is it hard to listen to those tracks anyway?

As if religious man wouldn't listen to artist's music because he/she was atheist

I bet we can find some more spacesynth ripoff examples if we seek more deeply.
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Post Post #18799
well, seriously, there are just 3 prime colors of light, and still look at the palette...

With the same chord progressions there are zillion different tunes played on top, however there has never been such copyright case - the chordprogressions aren't copyrighted.

About that "Men at work - Down Under" courtcase -- piece of melody was played on another scale. However ridiculous was that the courtcase was anyway even if originalauthor was dead.

Quote:

Phil Collins or Bronski Beat under different titles of both artist and song names


out of curiosity -- give me some examples of those.

Quote:

mega killing argument "7 notes" closes any court case instantly without a result.


Well thats up to judge to decide who has no musical hearing perhaps?

Several times I have read somewhere this saying from now on -- "I have never heard that tune before".
But so cant say man who is into the music for decades.
He may have heard it from somewhere and yet it is from very wellknown tune. (Well, listen for example that "Eric Saade - Popular", whose rhytmic riff it is actually in the beginning? ... it is used by Boney M. in several tunes which I recognized instantly. One of them is "Boney M, - Flight to Venus", yet the artist and producer claim that they havent heard it before.
Well, Boney M still was famous on those earlier days. That riff is also used in older release -- "Cozy Powell - Dance with Devil", but so old that producer isn't to know that, yet, it is a ripoff. But there is more -- also melodylines are ripoffs (and ridiculously enough even those melodylines ARE USED in several 80s tunes both in variation and/or exact note to note Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy ).

So, does music is SO limited, that to come to use the same rhytmic pattern (beat-by-beat exact replica) and also the same melodylines?

About spacesynth... still I think that it is not so exhausted, here is A LOT for greater variety for melodys. Here are many many of them who make their music and still only couple "Future generation" and just one "Jabdah" melody variations I have heard. Well? So if even hobby producers can come to variety, then in this case for professionals these "7 notes only" are very likely just deliberate ripoffs.
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