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Post Post #7229
Staffan, you could wait for quad cores to get cheaper, but even now Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600, though not cheap, isn't THAT expensive either.
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Post Post #7230
SX001 wrote:
if there is a serious system crash then install is very simple and dont need to install so much software packages again and actually I hate this kind of procedure.

On a side note, even if you have thousands of VSTs and other softwares installed, it shouldn't take you much time to restore a system crash from an image file (I use TrueImage today). I have my working system saved to two external Iomega HDD's (one of them is not even in the house). Back in the Win98SE days, I used to create a dedicated partition just for storing an image (Norton Ghost) of a working version of the OS with all additional drivers and the most common softwares I use (at that time I didn't spend time on music producing, instead I was mainly into graphics so I had a lot of gfx softwares). But today I think such a solution is no good -- what if the computer gets stolen or the entire HDD crashes? Hence the external HDDs.
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Post Post #7232
Prometheus wrote:
what if the computer gets stolen or the entire HDD crashes? Hence the external HDDs.


computers arent so much expensive in these days for now, but yes, never can be too cautious. For hdd crash
event I have this server and it has RAID system in it + backups.
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[Retired Droid]



Post Post #7234
SX001 wrote:
Staffan, it depends a lot from the mobo manufacturer. Actually for Core2Duo there is also mobo which has ATA interface, and SATA, plus AGP and PCI also. Try ASRock then.

If I should get a new CPU and mobo then I think it is best to get some ddr2/ddr3 and SATA to get as much performance as possible. So this means that I need to buy a completely new computer.

I have to think about this first. One temporary solution would be to overclock my existing computer and get some more ram Smile
Actually it is the lack of ram that is my biggest problem today as I use Atmosphere for most of the voices (strings, pads, chords, leads, etc). Probably I should start using the SQ8L for the leads and chords as it sounds great and is both CPU- and ram-friendly.
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Post Post #7239
Staffan wrote:
SX001 wrote:
Staffan, it depends a lot from the mobo manufacturer. Actually for Core2Duo there is also mobo which has ATA interface, and SATA, plus AGP and PCI also. Try ASRock then.

If I should get a new CPU and mobo then I think it is best to get some ddr2/ddr3 and SATA to get as much performance as possible. So this means that I need to buy a completely new computer.


yes, almost, but some things need to be explained so to avoid disappointment.
measurements:

* difference between ATA and SATA is actually just interface, it does not speed up dramatically since
both ATA and SATA are 7200rpm disks with transfer speed 50..60MB/s and so, not so much bus overhead with 100MB/s (ATA) or 150MB/s bus speed (SATA). and SATA2 is well... It has the advantage when you have multiple harddisks in one machine which you need to use simultaneusly. For RAID it is ok, but if using the disk as one disk in machine there is no difference if ATA or SATA.

And now... when measuring the average seek time, transfer rate from buffer to disk, it remained the same compared to ATA100 harddisks (so far 50..60MB/s). So, only interface.
The benefit is only if there is higher RPM etc. I have SCSI disk here too, it has 10 000 rpm and it has 80MB transfer rate. There are also Raptor disks (SATA if I remember).

The critical component perhaps can be the disk interface chipset in computer: If it is VIA then it is quite suspicious -- DMA will hang, CPU load is heavier compared to Promise and Intel chipsets (then try intel chipset).

Just tried out that thing already last year before using again ATA.


Memories. yes, it can be the reason to upgrade, but again....
Becouse there was difference even DDR and "DDR" memory becouse of the motherboard. (well, must use that dual-channel mode as it gives 40..50% faster memory speeds then).
So, when choosing mobo then I would suggest not to choose just DDR2, but DDR2 with dual channel mode (it has 4 memory slots) or just older computer is just 20% slower with memory performance compared to only DDR memory computer with dual-channel memory configuration. Wink
and of course: memory chipset.

New CPU (dualcore) are also supported with these mobos which have only DDR memories, but
the explanation can be here only if it is able to support even new CPUs in the future (but on that time perhaps the new memory types, bus types etc... are developed).

well, it got perhaps too computer hardware specific, but just some side notes why I think that when buying totally new computer with the "almost the latest version of hardware" will just have only one benefit: components availability for perhaps next couple years.

Quote:

I have to think about this first. One temporary solution would be to overclock my existing computer and get some more ram Smile
Actually it is the lack of ram that is my biggest problem today as I use Atmosphere for most of the voices (strings, pads, chords, leads, etc). Probably I should start using the SQ8L for the leads and chords as it sounds great and is both CPU- and ram-friendly.


The tweaking can usually offer only 15% rise in performance unless you have quite specific measurement system to tell what is the bottleneck what can be optimized and requires also very compatible hardware on it. I have succeeded also to get 486 computer memory get also as fast as pentium 133 but it was extreme case. but thats the rare choice today. (must seek this performance chart Wink ).
For this purpose program named Speedsys is very good if tweaking memory it will measure both cache levels and memory speeds and also harddisk parameters and transfer speeds.
http://user.rol.ru/~dxover/speedsys/index.htm

and for CPU if you try even more overclock be sure that you have enough cooled down the system Wink Smile computer case normal state: open.
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Master Droid



Post Post #7240
SATA is the way to go yes. New mobos either have no ATA or just one (so two disks on single bus). However for SATA there can be even 8 connectors on certain mobos. The cables are smaller and more nicer than ATA. So I personally like SATA more. Not sure about prices, many new harddisks may only come as SATA and IDE disks might be harder to get and more pricy. And most new harddisks don't have old molex power and ide connectors, just the sata data and power.

Here's nice picture of SATA vs IDE/ATA cable:
http://www.pcstats.com/articleimages/200504/hddinstall_cablestock.jpg

Most latest Intel mobos have DDR3. however not sure how good the chipsets there are. I'm more of AMD person and I have always gone with ASUS mobos, which have not failed on my yet during the years. Even the claimed "VIA" problem did not affect the ASUS mobo I had back then. Now I got NVidia 570 chipset. Infact I've been so happy with the stability of my system that I built computer for my sister pretty much with the same exact components (Corsair DDR2 800MHz memory, etc).
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Post Post #7241
Mark Vera wrote:
SATA is the way to go yes. New mobos either have no ATA or just one (so two disks on single bus). However for SATA there can be even 8 connectors on certain mobos. The cables are smaller and more nicer than ATA. So I personally like SATA more. Not sure about prices, many new harddisks may only come as SATA and IDE disks might be harder to get and more pricy. And most new harddisks don't have old molex power and ide connectors, just the sata data and power.


it always depends on manufacturers. But yes, it is more expensive to get this kind of backward support. Wink
for example: when this "ISA bus no longer available" started then
Intel reacted very fast and made __cheap__ motherboards with no ISA bus but only the points where it could be soldered but Aladdin, ASUS, and others made mobos with this ISA bus support some years forward.Razz
yes, ATA is sometimes more expensive than SATA, (but not so much, less than 5% price difference mostly with same parameter disks).

if ATA or SATA, there is not so much problem, becouse there are always available ATA / SATA / whatever controllers if there is problem with mobo that not so much HDD connectors than needed. Just add the expansion card and voila!, you have more IDE (both are IDE -- ATA and SATA, SATA2, whatever) or SCSI channels. These cards are made in quite many versions and with ability to connect also 8..16 disks........ even for SATA.
(Actually SCSI biggest advantage is that it will consume less CPU time).

( I have so far used 1 IDE cable per HDD on one machine Wink with Promise TX controller. And it does not cost so much even (aprox 40 EUR).

more problem seems to be the mobo manufacturers will not to support PCI anymore actually.

both SATA power connectors, expansion boards and cables (and even twisted pair extra thin ATA cables are available in shielded and isolated tube), but PCI support... hm... Razz


Quote:

have always gone with ASUS mobos, which have not failed on my yet during the years.

capacitors made in japan, perhaps so? and on cheaper boards made in china.

Quote:

Even the claimed "VIA" problem did not affect the ASUS mobo I had back then. Now I got NVidia 570 chipset. Infact I've been so happy with the stability of my system that I built computer for my sister pretty much with the same exact components (Corsair DDR2 800MHz memory, etc).


perhaps now it is gone?
but I remember atleast twice and both related with problems with CPU load with the VIA and SiS chipset when __DMA data transfers__ were done with IDE (both ATA and SATA are IDE "de facto") so that it hanged up with heavy load, while with intel chipsets I did not had this problem.

1. VIA chipset problem on days with 1500Mhz AMD system
2. chipset problem (ASUS SP97_V with AMD system).

I choosed ASrock becouse of amount of PCI bus (6 pcs) and also AGP, (well, many soundcards, controllers, SCSI) and still, dual channel memory support and minimum amount of integrated objects, since I am not interested every time after upgrade collecting video cards which do not fit in new computer and I'm not gamer else to upgrade the faster videocard. Smile


For me its just ridiculous that if I would need each time to replace the whole computer system if I just have to upgrade only one parameter but computershop salesman mostly try to tell that "cant live one component with another". For me its mostly just harddisk capacity in server and there is no need actually for upgrading either memory, CPU, videocard. Thats why I have gone this way, and its more economical also and allows old components recycling what I dont need to upgrade in any way! (and so, less trash produced).
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Post Post #7242
Staffan, don't buy ASRock. Buy Gigabyte, Asus, Abit... nothing can convince me that cheap mobo is a wise buy for a PC. Good, stable PC needs solid mobo, and these don't go cheap like ASRocks.
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Post Post #7243
Krizz wrote:
Staffan, don't buy ASRock. Buy Gigabyte, Asus, Abit... nothing can convince me that cheap mobo is a wise buy for a PC. Good, stable PC needs solid mobo, and these don't go cheap like ASRocks.


price depends on components, not a brand!
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Master Droid



Post Post #7244
SX001 wrote:

it always depends on manufacturers. But yes, it is more expensive to get this kind of backward support. Wink
for example: when this "ISA bus no longer available" started then


Anyhow, nowdays it's better to go for SATA. Most new PSUs have separate power rails for SATA power cables, and you don't really get to use those without SATA harddisks and CD/DVD drives. Also when I looked up the DVD/CD writers last time, it was pretty much SATA all around. If you looked for IDE, you'd have to go for older slower models and wait weeks to get your order. Plus price was same or less for SATA drives.
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